EP: 217 Kevin Van Orman w/ Any Hour Group - Transforming HVAC Operations: Leadership Lessons

Check out our latest episode of HVAC Success Secrets: Revealed, where we hosted Kevin Van Orman, President of Business Development and Regional Manager for the Any Hour Group. He started out as a technician and worked his way up into the family business. He helped grow the HVAC division from $5 to $50 million.

Kevin brings a unique perspective to the art of leadership, communication, and building a thriving work culture. Here's why you shouldn’t miss this episode:

• Leadership Development: Kevin’s transition from technician to President shows the power of growth and mentorship. His personal and professional evolution highlights the importance of nurturing leadership qualities at all levels within an organization.
• Communication is Key: From personality assessments to day-to-day interactions, understanding and leveraging communication styles can significantly enhance operational success and customer relationships.
• Employee-Centric Approach: With a focus on retention rates that outpace industry standards, Kevin underscores the importance of strategic hiring and fostering a supportive environment where employees can flourish.

Don't miss this insightful episode of HVAC Revealed, where you can gather exclusive tips on how to practically apply these practices to your business or career for exceptional growth and a positive workplace.

Find Kevin: 

E-mail: kevin@anyhour.com
Website: https://anyhourservices.com/

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Transcript

Kevin Van Orman: 0:01

Communication can be one of the most difficult things in a company, with a customer, with whoever it is and so if you understand that, oh, this is how I might come across, and this is how they want to receive it, and I can temper that just slightly, just to make it so that the communication happens. Wow. Talk about power.

Evan Hoffman: 0:18

Hey, welcome back to another HVAC Success Secrets Revealed with Thaddeus and Evan. Thaddeus, I left him at home because quite honestly, he's a bother most of the time he's almost like a brother to me, but we have on a guest that is a brother to someone that we've had on the show numerous times, who is Dustin Van Orman and we've got Kevin Van Orman. He is the president of partner development or business development slash regional manager he helps oversee five different locations within the in hour group. Correct awesome. But you started out as a technician, worked your way up into install manager to now being in the position that you are now help grow the HVAC division of the company from 5 million to 50 million. So seeing a little bit of growth, a little bit of change, had to redo your processes a couple of times and now you did all that I guess to, just to start off your story, your journey into the trades in general, how did you initially get attracted to it? How did you get into it?

Kevin Van Orman: 1:07

It's a funny story. It honestly, if you've heard Dustin's story, it's probably pretty similar. Grew up with a dad that was very handy he had a lot of apartments and from the age of six years old, I remember being there, sweeping parking lots, picking up garbage, and that translated into, I remember was it when the year I turned 19, two, two bedroom apartments, my brother and I, Dustin get them down to studs redid everything, just us. This was like the test, I think my dad popped in a couple of times. I remember when we were doing, down to linoleum, right? He came and just to make sure that seams were done the way that they needed to be done and that was really the start, getting into heating and air conditioning, I really did that mostly because it was the one thing I didn't know very much about. You know what I mean? I'd already done a lot of plumbing had done a lot of electrical and yeah, the HVAC side was just something that was an enigma, and yeah so yeah, when the opportunity came up, yeah, heck yeah, that sounds like a good way to go. There was something, cause I'd done a lot of, I'd done water heaters and all the whatever with plumbing, and done a lot of the electrical and everything else, and there was just a lot of unknown with it and the, I've always been somebody who likes to learn new things and to be able to just do for yourself has always attracted me to whatever it is, along the way, I got into that. It's since I was 21 ish was when I started doing heating and air conditioning. Since that time, I've done a lot of things, but that's always been my constant. You know what I mean? It's always been in the background, always doing HVAC. But along the way I've done a Built houses for eight years and I've been an electrician and a plumber quote unquote, and but it's always been my staple.

Evan Hoffman: 2:42

That's cool. How much did the attention to detail that your father pointed out made you make sure that you were doing right the seams on the linoleum, things like that how much did that play into how you orchestrated the install team when you started to step into that role.

Kevin Van Orman: 2:57

It's funny. You bring up my dad with that to this day, when I'm doing different things that my dad taught me, I still, my brain flashes back and says, let's see, dad said to do this and I'm almost 45 years old, and it's still with whatever it is my dad is a very meticulous, very organized individual, right? He was the guy that you'd be driving and he could tell you within seconds of how long it was going to take us even if you're walking, right? You talk about meticulousness and being organized. I would say that definitely had an effect on me. I, myself, I'm not a super organized person but just the fact that I had that. at a young age, I think has really helped me out a ton talking about our install department we went from zero up to, gosh, they're gonna do, right now they're pacing to do about 55 million just in installs for this calendar year, right and it's just been within the last, it wasn't a year ago yet that I got taken out of there, being able to be organized, being able to develop a system. You know what I mean? Because I'll be honest, when they gave me that position over there, it was a, okay, this is what you do. Okay, thanks. I was like you want me to do no, okay, I'll just figure it out. You know what I mean and so we just built whatever it was. If I had questions I could ask, we just put that together.

Evan Hoffman: 4:08

Wow. How much did it have to change and shift? Because I know as you grow, as you expand. You understand new ways of doing things, new processes, new procedures. How can we do this faster? How can we be more efficient with it? know, Something that we've talked about internally, at least in a manager level in our company is, the people who got you to where you're at might not be the people who are going to get you to where you want to go. But something that's always fascinated with me about Any Hour is how you develop people and grow with them over time how did you get that buy in from those people as you started to change the ways that you were doing things in the install department to be more efficient, get product out faster do a higher level of service, et cetera, with customers and then still maintain those people and get that buy in from them?

Kevin Van Orman: 4:52

I like what you talked about cause that is a very common belief, that the people that got us here won't be, can't get us to there. You know what I mean and At Any Hour, we've got a firm belief that why not? why can't they? The people that you think are going to be the ones that can get you to there they had to be developed somehow, somewhere, right? They had to get their experience somehow, somewhere, right? So why can't we do that here? And so that's what we've done, right? And it goes from top to bottom. So everybody at Any Hour Gets a, is trained on a weekly basis from the, we'll just say the lowest position, which I don't feel like there's anybody that's low. But from whoever doing whatever all the way up to management and the thought is that we can take our people and we can develop them into what we need them to be and I'll be honest, I am proof that works. I when I started here I had been. In leadership and other places, right? The company that I came from, I was running most of their in field type operations, it was a construction slash rental type place. It wasn't exactly the same type of stuff and I was there in house HVAC tech, right? Construction projects, whatever else. But so I can tell you a hundred percent, I am not the same manager that I was 20 years ago, and that was at a different company. I'm not the same manager I was 10 years ago. I'm not the same manager I was two years ago. The way I look at things and adapt, which is crucial if you're, cause just like you say, what's the size of a decent sized company? 5 million, 10 million, 20 million, right? Last year we grew like 15 million, right? We have to be able to take that growth in, cause we just grew the size of a decent sized company in a year and we have to be able to now absorb that in our managers have to be able to take that and not only take that and handle the extra workload, but it's a constant process of looking for the next level leader of leadership those people who are up and coming and so from the minute they're getting hired to the minute they actually end up in leadership, these people are one, we're looking for Who we think could be potentially those people and then also we're looking at how we can go about developing them and it's not just a leadership development that happens. It's a people development that happens because what I just said about being a manager, I'm not the same husband I was. So I've been married for 23 years I'm not the same husband I was 20 years ago, 10 years ago, two years ago, right? I have completely been developed into what I am now. I'll be honest, I am super grateful that I landed in the company that I'm in because I can actually look in the mirror and I like who I've been able to become.

Evan Hoffman: 7:18

Not many people can say that. I wish more people would.

Kevin Van Orman: 7:21

I don't know. I'm not those people.

Evan Hoffman: 7:23

I feel like with Dustin's computer dinging here, it's every time you have a good idea. So I think you're doing pretty well. One thing you said was that you're constantly looking at, is this person a leader? And then how can we draw that out of them? What sorts of things are you looking for to identify those potential leaders on your team?

Kevin Van Orman: 7:38

If you, it's funny, cause I'm actually doing a presentation tomorrow on, on this exact thing. So I've actually been looking at this all day. So John Maxwell, right? He says that leadership is nothing more than influence and so when you're looking, go clear back to the hiring process, right? We have a way more in depth hiring process and what most companies like us have people, you can expect, if you come in an interview, you're going to be here a minimum of two hours. If not, if we really like you, three, four, five, six, on an initial interview and that's because we're looking at these people, we're seeing if they're a cultural fit and I'll tell you, most people who are here, if you're a cultural fit, there's potential that you could be. a leader that's just waiting to be developed. You know what I mean? And looking from there, but as you watch somebody develop, as you watch people come in and enter your culture, and you watch people who grow into whatever it is that they're growing into, you can look and you can say, okay, who seems to have influence? And what kind of influence are they? Are they putting out there? Because, influence, that could be good influence, it could be bad influence, right? You could, leaders can go either direction and so that's what we're looking for, we look for people who are, who naturally already have that about them, and if all of the things kind of land in order, those are the people we're going to start along that path. Try and help them develop into more and eventually become leadership of some kind, and you know your leadership you need those people in the field, right? You need leaders in the field you need good leaders in the field that don't necessarily have a title doesn't make you a leader and so I go back to everybody gets a training. Everybody gets development right from the top to the bottom, right?

Evan Hoffman: 9:07

It's

Kevin Van Orman: 9:07

funny

Evan Hoffman: 9:07

when I first got here, Dustin wasn't at the front door yet when I got in and is it Michelle? Is that her name? Yeah. Yeah. She greeted me at the front door. We had a little, just, small talk and then she asked if I was here for an interview and of course my first thought is podcast interview. Cause that's what I'm coming for.

Kevin Van Orman: 9:24

So

Evan Hoffman: 9:24

she took you down to recruiting. She didn't cause I said I was here for Dustin. So she messaged him and said that I was here and but she did say, you know what, you're probably going to do great in your interview and then everything will go great and you'll probably get the job and then that's when it triggered that I was like, Oh, she meant that kind of an interview but it's interesting though, cause that giving someone that confidence when they're coming in for an interview from the receptionist, had I been coming here for an actual interview to potentially get a job, that's the kind of thing that's going to make me feel more comfortable. I'm going to now feel more comfortable when I'm sitting down for an interview, regardless of the position. She didn't know what I was here for could have been for sales, could have been technician, could have been to be the janitor yeah, that's the kind of thing that's, again, doesn't matter what role you're in is there training that's provided there for you.

Kevin Van Orman: 10:07

Oh

Evan Hoffman: 10:07

yeah and

Kevin Van Orman: 10:08

Michelle's awesome. She's been here almost as long as I have. And she's our, right now she's our dispatch manager and she just, you couldn't ask for a better person, right? You can think about a whole bunch of other adjectives. She's just a good person, really.

Evan Hoffman: 10:22

I love it. The freestyle franchise when you're walking the door, right? That's awesome. I want to get back into the hiring component and then the training component cause obviously at the rate that you're growing at 15 million a year in the last year, rate that you need to be recruiting and hiring and training is exponentially greater than most companies. When you say a good size company is operating at 5 million. What is the focus around hiring? What is the conversation around hiring from that management level all the way down?

Kevin Van Orman: 10:49

So

Evan Hoffman: 10:50

that's

Kevin Van Orman: 10:50

an easy one. The main focus, the main conversation isn't hiring. It's retention, right? And retention starts from the day they get hired, from the day they get interviewed, right? We put an overwhelming amount of effort and resources and everything behind having a place, creating an environment where people can come and not just survive, but come and thrive again, I go back to our people are trained our people have resources our people have benefits our people have a manager that takes is trained and knows that person is the asset, that person is their customer. We have our customers, but the manager's customer is their technicians, and are we giving our technicians, are we giving our customers a five star experience like our technicians are expected to give to their customers, right? And so really the answer is retention can you imagine having to rehire. What's the industry standard right now? 60%? 55%? It's not super great. We float around 80. We've been as high as 90, right? But we're in that, I think right now, 80 to 85 percent range and a lot of that is big. It's intentional. We want people, they know, we're asking people for commitment, I can't go back to our hiring process. It's not the just come in, chat for 10 minutes, you're certified, okay, let's go, we take the time. We make sure that the people that we are hiring in are people that we feel like we can help build a career and build into and be a part of what our culture is.

Evan Hoffman: 12:11

How long is the hiring process?

Kevin Van Orman: 12:13

Depending. We've got it honed in really good now. The initial interview is a couple hours, right? They come in, they're gonna take one-on-one or in a group. They're gonna come in and take a tour, typically with a group and then they're, everybody's given a one-on-one interview as well a lot of times they're then branched out to the manager of the department they're interviewing for and more often than not, they're coming back for a later interview to different day. We like to get spouses involved. We like, there's a lot that we do to be sure that these people are having. We want the interview process to be a five star experience. We want, you can't expect to be able to have people come in and give your customers a five star experience if they're not feeling like they're getting a five star experience and I'm talking from the day they're hired, that they are interviewed, day they're hired, and so on and so forth, clear through their career. We want people to have a five star career. That's the best way to say it.

Evan Hoffman: 13:00

I

Kevin Van Orman: 13:00

love it.

Evan Hoffman: 13:00

And you take great care of your people. I've seen it as we've walked around and toured the office and everything and.

Kevin Van Orman: 13:06

You know what? I've heard Dustin say it to people when, back when he was doing a lot more of the recruiting, talk to our people when you're here, go find somebody who's honoree. You'll have a hard time. They're here, right? You're not going to be able to keep everybody happy all the time, but the majority of the people we have they're upbeat, they're positive, they're happy to be here and that's, there's a reason, you don't have that happen just because you're here. By accident. It takes a lot of effort.

Evan Hoffman: 13:27

Yeah. It's not easy work to crawl up in an attic when it's 90 degrees outside, it's 110, 120, 130 in the attic, right? So it's definitely not easy work to at any stretch and no one's excited about doing that. So how can we do the best that we can to put them in the right state of mind, right? I always at a company that I used to work for, one of the things that they talked about was you gotta do three things every day one of them was get your head right. No matter what you got to do, just make sure that your head's in the right space and the right frame of mind to be able to serve and go out and do your job today. Yeah. When we look at what Any Hour is today, cause there's Any Hour and then there's the Any Hour Group, a hundred million dollar company being able to compress decades into days when it comes to knowledge. You've been here for 13 years obviously there's a lot of things that are done now than were done initially. How much in the groups that the offices that you're managing and overseeing now those five different companies, how much have you seen in them mistakes that you had made early on or you had seen been made at the company and now you try to lead them down a different path.

Kevin Van Orman: 14:28

Every

Evan Hoffman: 14:29

time I go out,

Kevin Van Orman: 14:30

I'll be honest, the companies I work with and you could talk group wide, right? Every company is at a different level. Some of them are still tiny in that five million dollar realm all the way up to pretty dang big, 45, 50 million and so they're all the different levels. You can go in to any single one of those and you can see things that we did, we experienced, we went through and that's one of the cool things about it. I can go into these companies and I'll go and sometimes it's within the first 10 minutes I'm there. I'm like, wait, we're doing what? Okay let's have a conversation about it, and it's awesome because they know and have seen what we've done and most of the companies that I'm working with, especially, they've been with us for, enough time to know that they need to give they need to pay attention to what it is that we have to offer and honestly, it's been a really fun experience. It's hard because change is not easy at any level. It's not easy and the types of changes that I may go in and see that might need to happen. They vary on severity or severity, that's the wrong word. They vary on how drastic they are and so some of them are just a little tweak here and there and some of them are, Hey, we really need to about face and but to see something happen and then within a couple weeks, a couple months, six months to see the changes that can happen, right? It's really fun to see. It really is.

Evan Hoffman: 15:46

Yeah. It's not easy when you're going through it because it, people will overestimate what they can do in a year they'll underestimate what they can do in a decade and I'm sure having to reframe that for people constantly is difficult and challenging. I did ask you before the show, what was one of your superpowers? And you said, being able to have tactful conversations and to tell people what they need to hear when they need to hear it and knowing when to shut your mouth and allow them to have the, their own thoughts expressed as well. How can someone improve on that? Is that even a skill that something, someone can build?

Kevin Van Orman: 16:16

Yeah,

Evan Hoffman: 16:16

I think

Kevin Van Orman: 16:17

it is. I think, and this is one of the cool things, everybody's going to have your natural things that you just, they're yours. You know what I mean? You can develop them and tweak them, but that's one of the neat things about leadership. It is a practicable thing you know what I mean? You can take it and you can develop it and you can get better maybe some people are going to get way better, but you can get better, right? And so if you have somebody who's leadership and they struggle with having a crucial conversation with people because they just, they don't know how to say it, right? Years have gone by and I have had the conversation many times where someone comes in and says, don't know how to say this, and I've told them point blank, say it as plainly and bluntly as you can, because that's what you're going to get back but they know that I'm coming from a place of love, right? That I actually care about what it is they have to say and so I'm not going to waste their time with a whole bunch of sugary, whatever else, right? And we're going to get whatever we need to out and then we're going to work through it, but what favors are you doing for people by not helping them know? And understand what is what like I say, it took me a little bit of time to develop the know when to hold back part of that, right? But I have been able to develop it. So I think maybe someone else will tell you different, right?

Evan Hoffman: 17:23

How

Kevin Van Orman: 17:24

much

Evan Hoffman: 17:24

of the, because I know you guys work off the color system, but whether it's the color system or the Myers Briggs or disc profile, how much of that plays into how it is that you respond to someone?

Kevin Van Orman: 17:34

At the beginning, when I say the beginning, when I first got put into management, it was very little. I just was flying off the cuff. I have found that there is a lot of truth to those systems, right? I'm the most familiar with color code. I would say second on disk, right? Color codes, core motivation disk is more how we show up in like a work environment, right? I tell you, the color code has been fantastic because it really, if it's utilized I've seen some people who use it as a, we'll call them color code racists, right for lack of a better way to describe it. Oh, so and so's a this or so and so's a that and now they don't like this and that. You cannot take it and put people into a box and one of the things I think that was a little bit difficult for me to wrap my brain around, and I would say, this really became apparent. I was at a training this had to be 10 years ago, right? And I was struggling with one of my newer guys that I had. He just, he was not what I thought he was going to be as far as production and I just needed a little bit more and we were quite a bit smaller. It affected things a lot more and I was at this training and at that point we were actually talking about this profile and so going through that, we did an exercise and I tell you, one of the trainers came in and I actually raised my hand and I said, hey, how do I fix somebody who's this? And their response was they're not broken so stop trying to fix them. And I was like, at first I was a little defeated oh, not the answer I was looking for. It wasn't, but I'm a DI on the DISC. I've always been, let's jump in, let's get this done, let's whatever else, and so I felt like there should have been a way to, to fix whatever else that really spoke true. It's not broken, so quit trying to fix it. and so I've taken that stance with every, whatever the color or whatever the personality metric you're looking at color code or whatever else. That's when we use. It has become an amazing tool, right? I've been able to help other managers in their dealings with other managers and just pull it up. Hey, let's look at your color code. How are you presenting this? And it's just able, because it's all about communication that's all, that's what we're taking from the color code. How do we communicate to other personality types, right? And communication can be one of the most difficult things in a company with a customer, with whoever it is and so if you understand that, Oh, this is how I might come across and this is how they want to receive it and I can temper that just slightly just to make it so that the communication happens. Wow. Talk about power, and that's what I've been able to see with it anybody who comes in any hour takes the color code because it's, how can you help yourself with that along that process if you don't know yourself? And that's really what it boils down to.

Evan Hoffman: 20:02

Correct. And what's interesting with all of them and you say just because you're high in this and it's how does it work together, right and that's the part and I know we took intermetrics report. That was one that we did and then also the Gallup Clifton Strengths and that was the one that was the most fascinating because when you get that full picture of your 36 strengths, I think it is, or 32 how do they relate with one another? How does it all work together and the pieces fit together? And I know a buddy of mine, he was diving in deep with it and the odds of someone else on the planet having the same one in 32 in the exact same order was one in 7 billion. So you want to talk about uniqueness of an individual there it is and just playing out with a strength finder test. So yeah, it was pretty remarkable when looking at stuff like that, but how people relate, how people think, how they work through problems, how they show up in environments and stressful situations problem solving, etc. It's all important to understand how people work so that you can communicate to them effectively and tactfully.

Kevin Van Orman: 21:05

And here's the thing. To what end? To what end? It's, goes back to creating a five star experience. Life doesn't have to be something I've told my guys. I used to tell them all the time, right? Life's hard. Why can't we go through it and do this together? If we all do it together, then it doesn't have to be so hard and that's what the color code helps us do that's what understanding all this stuff and the communication, just makes it so we can go through it together customer has a problem. Life's hard. You know what? They call somebody up to try and make it less hard and so if we can make that process and that everything else be that five star, that I think is what, defines what we've been able to do here at Any Hour compared to, anywhere else. You know what I mean? Putting that into what we're doing, the motivation behind it.

Evan Hoffman: 21:46

I love it and that's something that we've talked about numerous times on the show is the best thing that you can do for a customer is to treat your employees well because if you treat them well, they'll treat them well and it's that trickle down with it. If you were to still down one principle. around recruiting and team building that would make the biggest difference for someone who's at that one to five million dollar level. What would be that principle that you would give to them?

Kevin Van Orman: 22:12

That

Evan Hoffman: 22:12

is a good question.

Kevin Van Orman: 22:13

Because it's honestly, I think, I don't know if I would say it's a principle. I think it's more of a don't give up, right? Especially at that size be when you're, this is a thing people go in, they're looking for a job they're looking to be hired they're looking for whatever else they don't know what to expect. So if you can provide people at a smaller level, right? We do a big tour. We have a big facility a lot of people come in and they're holy cow, whatever else but we're trying to give those people that experience, right? When someone's coming to you or whatever it is and you're trying to figure all that out, I think it's don't be afraid to be vulnerable with those people. Don't be afraid to try and give them that experience. Don't be afraid to open yourself up, open your company up as people are coming in because that's what people are going to see. I think the biggest thing that I've found in recruiting and everything else is people can see through the BS, right? People can tell if you're being fake a lot of people. But so don't be, be real with people that's probably the biggest thing.

Evan Hoffman: 23:08

I love it. As we wrap up, I got one final question here for you. What's one question that you wished people would ask you more, but they don't?

Kevin Van Orman: 23:15

That's not a good question. Jeez, usually I'm the guy that's hey, don't ask me, ask them and it would really depend on which part of the business, because it's going to be different from when you're out.

Evan Hoffman: 23:22

It could be business, it could be personal.

Kevin Van Orman: 23:24

Yeah, I don't know, that'd be a good one that I'd have to mull over for a little while. A question that I wish people would ask me, wish my kids would ask me for permission before they went off and did stuff, I have to tell you that's one for sure.

Evan Hoffman: 23:33

That'd be a nice one, yeah.

Kevin Van Orman: 23:34

You know what, that kind of translates over into some of the guys that have worked for me, wish they would have asked for at least an opinion on some stuff, how to do the whatever else.

Evan Hoffman: 23:43

There's something we can explore. How do you know when to leap and to go after something and try it and try and because the speed at which of making that decision is important versus when do I need to pause, reflect, think through, seek out guidance, advice, feedback before making a decision. How do you distill between those two things?

Kevin Van Orman: 24:02

It depends on what it is that you're, what you, what it is you're doing. You know what I mean? Cause it's going to be different you got a new guy that's in the field. It's going to vary on their experience level. You know what I mean? You hope a guy is going to take a chance and try and figure something out for themselves before they're calling you all the time, right? There's a balance with guys, you have a new manager who's dealing with other people you would hope that they would know this is a serious issue or this is a serious question and this is, and come and get some counsel before they go off and just, make decisions, whatever else, that being said, you want your people to be empowered. You want them to be able to make decisions and feel like you've got their back and so I think you have to be able to have people's back even when they, that are working for you, even when, cause let's be honest, you're gonna have to own whatever it is regardless, right? Cause ultimately the buck stops with whoever's in charge and It really varies. It really varies experience level and just where guys are at in their career and their decision making ability.

Evan Hoffman: 24:51

And so if someone were like, let's say one of owners, the managers that are at the location that you're overseeing they make a decision that they felt was right. It ended up being the wrong decision how do you have that conversation with them to go back and reflect on it and say maybe we should have thought about this a little bit more.

Kevin Van Orman: 25:08

The conversations, they're gonna be the conversation. I think the biggest thing is making sure that people have an expectation set before you ever get to that level that's how you can avoid major heartache, major trauma, major whatever, in the business, at a whoever's house, you know I think that's one thing that I've found in most places and I can say this because it's been the case with me other places I've been, and that is that expectation wasn't set or wasn't given clearly enough and so you're just left to try and figure things out on your own, and you're asking for disaster. All it takes is a little bit of, and it goes back to communication, a little bit of preemptive communication and if people want to do a good job and how can they do that good job if they don't know exactly what the expectation is.

Evan Hoffman: 25:49

Love

Kevin Van Orman: 25:49

it. appreciate

Evan Hoffman: 25:49

it, Kevin. If someone did want to reach out to you, ask some questions about what the group entails, what being involved with the group would be, or even just how to run a better install department. What's the best way to reach you?

Kevin Van Orman: 26:00

Honestly,

Evan Hoffman: 26:01

email kevin@anyhour.com Love

Kevin Van Orman: 26:04

it. Super easy one.

Evan Hoffman: 26:05

Perfect. I appreciate you taking some time to join us today and yeah, until next time. Cheers, everyone.

Thaddeus Tondu: 26:12

Well, That's a wrap on another episode of HVAC Success Secrets Revealed. Before you go, two quick things. First off, join our Facebook group, facebook.com/groups/hvacrevealed. The other thing, if you took one tiny bit of information out of this show, no matter how big, no matter how small, all we ask is for you to introduce this to one person in your contacts list. That's it. That's all one person. So they too can unleash the ultimate HVAC business. Until next time. Cheers.