EP: 224 Joshua Griffin w/ HVAC Guide For Homeowners - HVAC Strategies for Success and Customer Satisfaction

In our latest episode of HVAC Revealed, we had the pleasure of diving deep into the HVAC industry with the incredible Joshua Griffin! From enhancing customer experience to mastering the art of balancing profitability and service, this episode has it all. Here's a quick glimpse of what we covered:

Key Takeaways

• Truly understand and cater to the homeowner's perspective for a superior customer experience: The significance of understanding what homeowners truly want and reverse-engineering the experience to meet those needs. 

• Harness the Power of Content: Joshua shared how he transitioned from running an HVAC business to creating valuable content on YouTube, amassing 140,000 subscribers. His journey highlights the potential of local, relatable video content in connecting with audiences and driving engagement. Leverage content creation, especially video, to educate and connect with local audiences, enhancing your business reach and impact.

• Always have well-structured contracts to build trust and clarity: Joshua emphasized the importance of having proper contracts in place right from the get-go. This not only sets clear expectations but also establishes trust with homeowners.

Tune in to gain more insights and practical tips that could transform your HVAC business! Don’t forget to check out Joshua Griffin’s valuable content on YouTube and join our Facebook group for ongoing discussions and support.

Find Joshua :

YouTube - youtube.com/@NewHVACGuide
Facebook - facebook.com/NewHVACGuide
On The Web: newhvacguide.com/
Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/joshua-griffin-0b186b88/
Via Email: newhvacguide@gmail.com

Join Our Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hvacrevealed
Presented By On Purpose Media: https://www.onpurposemedia.ca/
For HVAC Internet Marketing reach out to us at info@onpurposemedia.ca or 888-428-0662



Sponsored By:

Chiirp: https://chiirp.com/hssr
Elite Call: https://elitecall.net
Service World Expo: https://www.serviceworldexpo.com/
On Purpose Media: https://onpurposemedia.ca

Transcript

Joshua Griffin: 0:01

If you're not offering those systems, I've had guys comment on our videos all the time and they'll say, nobody in my area buys that stuff. Did you offer any of them? Have you offered? No, we don't even sell it at my company because nobody buys it. That's probably because while they're, that's why they're not buying it. You're not offering it.

Evan Hoffman: 0:22

Hey, welcome back to another HVAC Success Secrets Revealed with Thaddeus and Evan. We have good conversations with good people and any good conversation worth having is worth having drunk. Cheers, my friends. Cheers. Glad to be back feeling refreshed, illuminated. No longer throwing up on top of a mountain. So that's great.

Thaddeus Tondu: 0:38

There you go. Even better.

Evan Hoffman: 0:39

I'm excited for today's show. Josh is someone who puts out a ton of content online really geared towards homeowners, and then he's got his live show as well. That's geared towards technicians and contractors but excited for it because one video crushes when it comes to any type of marketing and he's doing a tremendous job of that. And I think there's a lot of things that people can learn from that side of it, but he's tremendously knowledgeable as well. I don't know if you've watched some of his content that's on there or not, but there's such a wide range of topics that he goes through. I'm excited for it. He's got the plaque up behind him for a hundred thousand subscribers on YouTube, which is no small feat. We're definitely trying to chase that down, but yeah, I'm excited for today's conversation. He's tremendously knowledgeable in the field.

Thaddeus Tondu: 1:20

Yeah. And it's in flipping the narrative on what we traditionally talk about in the HVAC guide for homeowners is one of the big things that we're going to, we're going to dive into, but coming at it from doing what's right by the homeowner and doing what's right by the individual that's on the other side of the table. Not to say that companies don't do that. I think there are a lot that do, but there's also some of that are shady as fuck and now we can talk about what to expect from some of that as well. But today's show would of course not be possible without our sponsors and in no particular order, Elite Call Chiirp, Service World Expo and On Purpose Media. So let's get going with have you ever thought about outbounding your databases to fill your dispatch boards with lucrative sales and service appointments and boosting memberships too? Enter an Elite Call, a US based call center that does just that. For 20 years, their dedicated teams don't just make calls, they appointments into your CRM and fill your dispatch boards. Don't let your competition get ahead. Visit the folks over at EliteCall today at elitecall.net.

Evan Hoffman: 2:17

Awesome. And we've got Chiirp, and I'm going to ad lib this one a little bit because it's something that's come up recently. I know, look out. It's something that's come up recently and it typically comes up in summer. Missed calls. It happens a ton in businesses. You're paying for these leads. You're paying for these calls come into your business and yet you don't have a system in place in order to reach back out to those people when the call gets missed, or it's an abandoned call. Enter Chiirp. Chiirp has an integrated system where they can integrate with softwares like Housecall Pro, Service Titan, to be able to pick up where you missed a call. The call and be able to text those customers, get them onto your dispatch board, send them an online booking link, and get them booked back into your business. Check out chiirp.com/hssr today to get 25 percent off your first three months and I promise this one feature alone will be worth its weight in gold for your business.

Thaddeus Tondu: 3:09

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Evan Hoffman: 3:45

Excited to go back to the expo again and last but not least, we've got On Purpose Media, your go to home service marketing expert for everything web design, SEO, and PPC. You want a stunning user friendly website? Visit Definitely convert visitors on your website into phone calls with a high conversion rate optimization. Definitely an enhanced visibility with Google through effective pay per click and eliminate that wasted ad spend. It's one of the biggest pain points that we focus on is eliminating that wasted ad spend on Google. So go ahead and check us out at onpurposemedia.ca to start your digital transformation today. Josh, thank you so much for joining us, taking time away from the channel to be able to drop some nuggets here with us today. Walk us through your journey. You ran a company, you sold the company, you're running your YouTube channel. You've been running it for a while now. How did you get into it? Where did the inspiration to get onto YouTube start? Walk us through the journey, man.

Joshua Griffin: 4:36

Yeah. So when I had my business owned a heating and air business for 11 years and I was always looking for, I was a cheapskate. I was always looking. to lower the overhead and creative ways. One of those ways was I remember I had a an experience with having a radio commercial and how expensive they can be and I was like how do I start my own radio station? I was just, I was always looking for ways to advertise, but, not have to have such high overhead, but as time went on, obviously social media and YouTube are free resources and I started making videos partly for that reason, but also partly because, when you're in somebody, sorry, I don't know if you can hear my dog, but he is not having a good time right now.

Thaddeus Tondu: 5:25

Yeah.

Joshua Griffin: 5:26

When you're in somebody's house and you're trying to sell them something, they, their walls are up. They know you're trying to sell them something, no matter how good you are and so what I found was if I would make a video talking about the products we sold or the benefits of choosing us versus the next company and then just, attached it to an email or put it in our proposal, they could watch it from the comfort of their own home. The walls were down. I could get on my soap box for a moment and that was the original intent. I never intended to get one of these little silver play buttons or do some of the cool things that we're getting to do now and it just grew from there and I saw a lot of heating and air guys making videos for other heating and air guys, but there weren't very many making. Videos for mom, if mom's about to buy a heating and air system, there was nobody that would give mom advice at the time and so that kind of became the mission and it's grown into some pretty cool experiences. still think of myself as a guy that grew up in a trailer park and learned how to fix an air conditioner and now fast forward, I'm writing a book. I was on a couple of stages last year. It's been really crazy so.

Evan Hoffman: 6:37

Almost surreal.

Joshua Griffin: 6:38

Very odd.

Evan Hoffman: 6:39

So you ran the business for 11 years recently sold. Congratulations on the exit on that. What you did build a team up to, I think you said it was 12, right? At one point.

Joshua Griffin: 6:48

Yeah. Yeah. The biggest we ever were was 12.

Evan Hoffman: 6:51

What

Joshua Griffin: 6:51

were some

Evan Hoffman: 6:51

of the frustrations that led you in, in, in the HVAC business to wanting to exit and go all in on YouTube?

Joshua Griffin: 6:59

Man, that's a loaded question. There's several, right? For me, I always wanted to be a business owner. I still am. I still own a couple businesses, including, consider myself an entrepreneur when I, when it comes to making YouTube videos but as I I don't want to say I became burnt out because that sounds weak, but to be completely honest with you, after just grinding for 10 years, I was burning out and I was kinda, I was on the front line. I was the guy that, one of the things one of the other guys I follow he'll always talk about when you're a service tech, you're constantly getting that hit of dopamine every time you fix their air conditioner. But then when you become. Service manager or a business owner that kind of goes away and you've got to learn how to continue to stay motivated and without that hit of dopamine all the time and I was experiencing that hard there were times when disgruntled employees or disgruntled customers would take it out on me and so it became harder and harder to climb in that attic when I was making more money, making YouTube videos. just full, transparency on that front but it was a, an accumulation of things. I think that played a role, but just always, there's always that bigger dream, right? I had a dream of owning a business. I did that. I had a dream of building that business and employing others and treating them well and I did that. Now I've got some, other dreams on the hook.

Thaddeus Tondu: 8:24

The burnout's not weak by the way burnout's real and it is a hundred percent real in it, in looking at managing that accordingly for anybody that might be facing or thinking that they're in that situation. It is a hundred percent real, especially as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, the shit that we deal with on a day by day basis is catastrophically different than what other people deal with on a day to day basis same, but different as they'd like to say in Thailand, I guess in looking at managing some of that burnout, what are some of the things that either you did during the time to be able to help reduce that or some things that you realized after you sold the business and moved away from it. They were like, Oh shit, if I would have actually done this one or two things, I would have actually been able to manage my burnout better.

Joshua Griffin: 9:04

I love that question. I was just talking to another business owner about that not long ago I think personally, if I could have been better at compartmentalizing and better at turning it off when it was time to be, if I had a technician on call and I could go enjoy time with my family, being able to mentally turn it off. That would have been very helpful cause I couldn't, I just, even now that I've sold the business, I still will talk to, one of my employees now works for the company that bought it and I had to tell him, stop telling me cause I get, I still carry it with me and that was my biggest problem and that kind of goes back to why I sold, because I've got a three year old now and, we've gone on two vacations this summer. I went 12 years and maybe longer, maybe probably before that, when I was doing, working for other heating and air companies, but definitely during the years that I owned my business, between the months of April and september, we did not vacation. I would maybe take a day off, but there was never a time I would take a week off. So I'm going to get to see her grow up, and so I think that if you own a business and you can find somebody good that can, take care of the business when you're not there, figure out a way to turn it off, compartmentalize, and just enjoy your yourself and maybe just, maybe you won't get burnt out like I did.

Thaddeus Tondu: 10:27

I think a lot of times people have put this badge of honor on how much they work and how little they sleep in. I'm working 70 hours a week and I see some people still on Facebook. They talk about, or online they're like, yeah, I worked 70 hours this week okay, great you also have kids and a family. When do they get to see you? When do they get to spend the time with you? So it's a very real part and I think a lot of people need to hear that message more.

Joshua Griffin: 10:47

I agree. I think. Oh, I'm sorry. I was just going to add I think that if homeowners, sorry business owners, if they I think ultimately at the end of the day, if they could figure out not just a way to turn it off, but just a way to enjoy life or whatever. I'm trying to think of where I was going to go with that but as you were talking, but yeah, just figure out a way to enjoy life and still kick butt there's still something to be said for that grind, right? I still grind, but now I can finally compartmentalize a little bit cause I don't own a business that we're on call 24/7.

Evan Hoffman: 11:19

Be a little bit more in the moment. I would disagree. I think you are on call 24/7 because the internet doesn't shut off so how have you been able to do that now in your new business and your other business ventures versus before?

Joshua Griffin: 11:31

I think that I also cared so much. So when I had my business, not only can I not turn it off, but I just, you probably shouldn't care so much what people think all the time, but man, I just, cared so much. I wanted them to be happy when they chose us and if they weren't happy, when in reality, they wouldn't have been happy with anybody. it wouldn't have mattered how great of a job I did. They probably wouldn't have been happy. I still carried it, man. I still think back of some of the jobs and even now I get a little stressed out if you want to call it that. So it's just different. Do I get trolls on the YouTube channel? Of course. But it is just different. Those trolls are just some booger picker in their mom's basement, and I'm not worried about that guy I was, worried about Mrs. Jones who hired us to fix her air conditioner, and Mrs. Jones wasn't happy with something. We tracked mud on her carpet. I'm paying for those carpets to be clean.

Thaddeus Tondu: 12:25

Some keyboard warrior makes a comment on online. You're like, and delete. One of the things you mentioned briefly, and I know that you had the inspiring story of growing up porn in your notes and in changing into running a business, being successful now and I've long since been a believer that sometimes people in their own environments if they only see that environment, they're never going to be able to grow out of that environment. Now, if they see another environment, they see another way, they could potentially grow out of that environment and into something else. In that transition from growing up poor, transitioning out of that, seeing a different world, seeing a different environment, how have you changed your outlook from where you were to where you are now to be able to continue to have the growth and success that you're having without potentially going back into that same environment?

Joshua Griffin: 13:13

Man, this show is called Secrets Revealed. We're revealing now. That's a deep question. I know. I, I hear you on that. I think that there's something to be said for you. You are who you associate with. But I also think that there are some people that they, so for me, the way we grew up and I love my parents, they did very well with what little bit we had. But at the same time, for me, when I would get off of work, I was not okay, I was never content even now I'm not content I've also come to the realization that not everyone's wired that way like most people that own businesses or entrepreneurs or whatever, they are who they are because they're wired that way and, God just didn't make us all that way there. I've talked to other people who have said, Josh, I probably wouldn't even get out of bed every morning if I didn't have a boss. I have to have someone push me and drive me to produce results and even to this day, there, there's never a time where I clock out and then, I, even now I'll have a laptop in my lap. If we're, we are relaxing in the afternoon and watching some reruns of everybody loves Raymond. I don't know if y'all love that show, but that's one of my faves and I usually have a laptop in my lap and I'm working on something, trying to make the website better, trying to make something, do something, I'm not content with, oh, life sucks. I can't get pay my bills this month, but I'm also going to, get 10 hours of sleep tonight, just no,

Evan Hoffman: 14:43

I love that because that's, I was in Peru for the last two weeks and had an amazing time, but we were in a bus, a big van in between all the different stops and so I was pulling out a hundred million dollar leads. I read through that, took Gary Vee's new book with me too and yeah, like I knew the internet would be spotty, so I probably wouldn't have access to like answer emails and do all that kind of stuff. But I had the books with me said I could be doing something and could be making progress cause I don't know about you, but for me, it's I always just want to be progressing and moving forward and feeling like I'm moving forward cause stagnation is just toxic for me.

Joshua Griffin: 15:18

Absolutely. Yeah. If you're, I guess you could call him a mentor of a guy that I used to follow used to always talk about my car is a rolling university. So I could listen to music and I do from time to time, but I would say 80 percent of the time I've got you guys playing. I've got pot another, I follow probably five or six different podcasts and I would much rather do that. You just never know when that next little nugget could change everything for your business, could change everything for your life just because, Instead of listen, listening to Taylor Swift's new song, you went ahead and listen to, something that could affect your family's life. I think when my little girl was born, it changed everything. Before that I was a go getter, but now I have a go, I go with purpose. I want to know that if I die tomorrow, cause I could, that she's going to be okay and she is.

Thaddeus Tondu: 16:08

Brian Tracy talked a lot about that like the, your cars, your university and he was also talking when it was tape, it was tapes before CDs. Yeah. Cassettes. There we go. And it was listening to his sales closing on cassettes.

Evan Hoffman: 16:21

Yeah, Zig Ziglar, too. Now you mentioned that you don't think that everyone is wired that way and I'm sure when you were running your business you had that where some technicians, CSRs, office managers, et cetera were not wired that way. What were some things that you did to work with them to help instill more of that hunger? And maybe it wasn't to the level that, that you naturally felt like you had to help them get out of bed in the morning and be that boss for them that, that helped them strive for more.

Joshua Griffin: 16:50

I don't even know if I was ever a really good at that. To be honest with you. I did do weekly meetings and at times more I know there are some folks, some service managers that do daily meetings would try to, meet with the guys more than less. We would try to do different things to make them feel like appreciated employees, but I also think that some people will show you who they are and if you find a good employee hang on to them, take good care of them. That's one of the things when I did start my business, nobody ever talks about the connections that you, I remember one of our customers passing away and me bawling during a staff meeting once, and nobody ever talks about that and I've got a couple of my old employees that they are, it sounds cliche, but they feel like family, even now that the company's gone, they you know that you develop that connection. So I think I think there are lots of things you could do to, help employees along, but I think ultimately if you find somebody that is saying the right things and they're showing interest and especially in our trade, they're showing that they want to grow in our trade, I think that just nurture them, put more time and effort into them and less time into the guys that can't even bring a good attitude in the morning and you'll probably get a little further along, taking care of those guys that are, on their way, sometimes they'll surprise you some of my best guys started out and I was like, I don't even think this guy's going to be here a week, and my best guy. Year after year started out. He knew nothing he worked for one of those quick oil change places that you pull in and you're got an oil change in 10 minutes and he had a little bit of knowledge, he had turned a wrench, but. He knew nothing about heating and air and within six months, I knew I had one. He was on his own installing his first system and I was like, wait, I finally found one.

Evan Hoffman: 18:43

The thing that those shops really teach is communication, right? Especially when you're turning the wrench and still communicating with the customer and you're being able to present options. You show the different, right? Like they always show you a good, better, best on everything and then they're talking about upgrades constantly. So from a sales perspective, they're fantastic and they have to be a little bit technically savvy as well and be able to turn a wrench.

Joshua Griffin: 19:05

Yeah.

Evan Hoffman: 19:06

Good point. Yep. Out of curiosity with the team members that you had that felt like they were more family, did you ever feel like that got in the way of being able to lead and manage them?

Joshua Griffin: 19:16

No, I was always careful and, even now, so I ha I still have an employee that helps me with the YouTube channel and stuff and I never forced them to be my Facebook friend, for example, if they want a friend request me fine, but I never, I would always give them. I don't know if y'all watched that goofy show on Bravo. My wife likes it. It's called below deck where the there's a, they take these rich people out okay so there's this show, they go out on these big yachts and there's 10 or so people that work on the yacht and they take these rich people out and the whole show is about them fighting and whatever and it's a reality show and the captain on there would always say that he intentionally would not go out with them after hours when they're going to go out and have a drink because he needed them to have the freedom to have a moment to bitch about him and to say, Oh, my, the captain sucks, but I'm going to be at work tomorrow morning on that on time, and I think that, that I think that's healthy. I think we all at times are going to complain about our boss and even those employees that, feel like family probably still didn't love me all the time.

Thaddeus Tondu: 20:24

It's an interesting dichotomy to walk to of making it your business feel like a family, but also making it a business and I think that's the toughest thing is sometimes that it's actually fun. I'm listening to dichotomy leadership right now from with Chaka welding, great book but in like that's literally the chapter that I'm listening to is this whole aspect of you have to care for your people, but you can't be attached to your people and when you get too attached, now you actually can't make a decision for your business because you're too involved in the emotional side of things.

Joshua Griffin: 20:55

I think the biggest thing I gave my employees, at least, most of them is I gave them the same and I can't say this would work for all companies or whatever, but for me, this worked great. I was not a doormat. So did we try to take really good care of our customers? Yes, but there were never times that I was going to be someone's doormat. I wasn't going to let them be ugly and just crap all over me and I gave my employees the same freedom in that. I would say, there are times when you can walk away, you can tell that homeowner we're just not a fit and I think that went a, long way knowing that I had their back customer is always right. Okay. But are they really? No, I'm going to have my great employee. Like I remember one of my employees, his name is Kenny and I remember an employee, a customer having a problem with Kenny and I remember telling my wife, if they've got a problem with Kenny. They are the problem. The guy's the nicest man you'll ever meet. Kenny's not the problem. I don't know what happened. I wasn't there. I don't know what was said, but if they've got a problem with Kenny, they're the problem.

Thaddeus Tondu: 22:01

One of the most lovable guys around. There are those people. They're just like big, they're just like teddy bears. You just can't be mad at them. That's right.

Evan Hoffman: 22:08

Unfortunately, Thad's not one of those people.

Thaddeus Tondu: 22:10

No, definitely not Thad. People can get angry at me a lot, which is fine. I have no issues playing the villain sometimes, should a person need to. But I do want to transition into the homeowner part of the conversation, because I think that's important. But before that, we've got a random question and since you're a fan of the show, you already know what's coming. We have three questions queued up on deck actually only two this time. So I had to ask our team as we're in the show, cause it wasn't in our show notes. So I've got two questions for you. You don't get to know what the questions are. You just get to choose. Do you want question one or do you want question two?

Joshua Griffin: 22:39

I'll go question two.

Thaddeus Tondu: 22:41

All right. If you could shrink yourself down to the size of an ant, what would be the coolest thing to explore in your house or business from that perspective? Ooh, the best question ever.

Joshua Griffin: 22:54

flower on the wall conversation. Whenever there's things being said and you're like, man, I wish I could be a flower on the wall in that conversation. I don't know. I think that's as I said earlier I would give my employees a freedom at times to complain about me. So I wouldn't want to have always been a fly on the wall as far as that goes. I don't know. That's tough.

Thaddeus Tondu: 23:15

That's a tough one. That's a, that is a tough one. I think the honey, I shrunk the kids like the movie when he shrinks the kids down to the size of the ants. I actually think the backyard would be a great adventure place from the size of an ant's perspective. I don't know if I want to look at anything inside my house, but definitely in the backyard. might get stepped on, but hey, that happens. Sprayed with ant kill.

Evan Hoffman: 23:32

Go crawl, crawl through the ductwork of your house.

Thaddeus Tondu: 23:34

That actually, disgusting when you think about it, but get it cleaned through before and then get it cleaned and then go through it after. There you go. There you go. Perfect.

Evan Hoffman: 23:43

Awesome. I know we want to dive into the homeowner side of things and this obviously goes in. In conjunction with the YouTube channel, building out the content for homeowners, there was a lot of content that was being built for technicians, being built for contractors. This channel is essentially for contractors, right? But for you, you took a different approach and wanted to reach out to homeowners, connect with them, build content for them. What was the inspiration behind that? And you've taken it so much further than I think you even intended to in the beginning. So I guess walk us through a little bit of that thought process and then where is that lacking today with most home service businesses.

Joshua Griffin: 24:18

Yeah. So original, as I said, originally I was making YouTube videos just as a sales tool for the company and somewhere along the way this, I remember exactly where I was to this day, this lady called me and she said, Hey, I found you on YouTube. I'm not in your area but can I ask you a couple of questions, the things you're telling me, I'd just like to ask you a couple of questions and I don't even, to this day, I don't remember what exactly I told her, probably some 10 second commercial that, that I probably said to every homeowner, but I remember telling her a few things and I remember her saying to me. No one has ever told me what you're telling me. No, no one's taken the time to explain, whatever it is I was talking to her about and no light bulb went off. So anyway that actually is the reason I built the website that I built a new hvacguide.com because I wanted to give, I could have written a book. I could have. But let's be honest, that would have been outdated within a year or two with an industry that changes so fast, it would have been outdated really quickly. So instead it's more of a membership site format that we can change and massage as time goes by and ultimately the channel started to grow a little bit, the YouTube channel and again, like you said, I never thought it would be what it is, but along the way, just by making a few videos, giving advice to, quote unquote, mom, if she was in the market for a heating and air system, I had gotten a 700 subscribers and I don't remember how many watch hours, but. I was on the cusp of getting monetized and YouTube sent me a, an email saying, Hey, if you get to a thousand subscribers, we're going to send you a check and that was March of 2021. I think it was 2020 or 2021. But I hammered the next month. I've every week I was belting out at least three to five videos and in every video I was saying, please hit that subscribe button by May, they sent me that first check and the rest was history. I stopped doing all the other things I was doing. I was doing a podcast at the time. I stopped that and I went all in put all my eggs in that basket, if you want to put it that way.

Thaddeus Tondu: 26:25

Did you frame the first check? Did you keep it?

Joshua Griffin: 26:27

No, it was bigger than I thought it would be, so I cash

Thaddeus Tondu: 26:31

yeah. Yeah and I guess they could've done the mobile payment op, like the mobile deposit from your app and then kept the check, but hey, that would've been, that would've been forethought. I should have done that.

Evan Hoffman: 26:41

That is smart. I think just to acknowledge the work that you put in, YouTube long form videos on YouTube. is the hardest platform to scale right now to grow in two years, three years, from 700 subscribers to 140, 000 subscribers is a tremendous feat. So I definitely want to acknowledge that cause that's huge, dude. You've done some amazing work, but again, it's a testament to the consistency, right? Anything done well consistently over time is going to, perpetuate results coming back to you and putting out three pieces three videos a week on YouTube that are well edited, that are full of valuable content is not easy. Hats off to you on that.

Joshua Griffin: 27:20

Thank you. It's been fun too, but yeah, no, I appreciate it.

Evan Hoffman: 27:23

Go ahead. All right. In terms of from a marketing perspective for for business owners, for contractors, trying to reach and connect to homeowners. That was the approach that you took with it. It's something that we've seen is lacking in the market. A lot of focus is on profitability. A lot of focus is on, sales and you hear that with a lot of the P. E. that's come into the industry now where technicians are unhappy because it went from being a family company to just focused on sales now and there's a big disconnect between helping homeowners and I think technicians still live there and they truly do want that for homeowners. How do we as an industry get back to helping people and not being at the core of what we do?

Joshua Griffin: 28:04

Man that's part of it, right? think that we have multiple voices in our industry. Some are pushing for, hey, we need to get back to some traditional values here and then we have others that are glorifying pushing how many sales can I push every month? And I don't know what the answer is because the people that seem to push the message of, hey I put, I sold this much money last month, they're the ones that get rewarded at the end of the day so that I think all in all it's tough. I think that character is who you are when no one's looking and I think if you. somebody that can sleep at night? Knowing that you probably took advantage of Mrs. Homeowner that's how you are at the core, right? But if you are one of those guys that or gals, lady that, wants to do things right and take good care of people at the end of the day. I genuinely believe that at the end of the, no matter what your religion is, or I think those things come back around and if you're taking good care of people those seeds will pop back up at some point and I think you just got to have that kind of an attitude, things will come back around.

Thaddeus Tondu: 29:11

I think it's also partly the loud ones are always the best. The ones that are talking and pumping the sales aspect of things and the revenue and profit and et cetera don't get me wrong profits, not a dirty word. In fact, you should be going for 20% profit in areas of.

Evan Hoffman: 29:27

Running a business via charity.

Thaddeus Tondu: 29:28

No, you're not an accidental nonprofit is what I always say. Like I'm running a business to, to have a profit, right? And that's why everybody else should be running a business to have a profit and understanding that profit and customer service go hand in hand, right? When you have great, customer experience you can also get a great profit but the other thing, and I read this stat and I don't know, I can't remember where it was from. So forgive me if this is an inaccurate step, but 90 percent of HVAC companies are 2 million or less and it could have been home services but 90 percent of companies are 2 million or less and so you think about, okay if you are in that category, you can have a great customer experience. Still, you can still do what's right for the homeowner and not necessarily focus on those overarching sales goals that the everybody is talking and showing, et cetera, on the interwebs. So just keeping note of that too, right? Like it's also your reality too not everybody needs to be and wants to be a 10 to 20 million per year business or greater than that, which has to have a sales machine element to it.

Joshua Griffin: 30:26

Yeah. I'm not trying to villainize, there are certainly people out there that are bad apples, but then there are some good apples out there that by gosh, they're good apples and they should be paid as such. So I don't know. I certainly don't want to villainize anyone that wants to make a decent living, but I'm totally with you on that. I think that if you are again, if you're sowing good seeds and they're going to come back around and I think that you should be blessed if you're taking good care of folks.

Thaddeus Tondu: 30:53

I was referenced, Tommy Mello is a good example. It's a nine figure per year business and has the Google reviews to back it up and I'm sure he gets some bad complaints just like any business has some bad experiences and bad complaints and et cetera, but he also takes care of his people and he also makes a profit. I think another one I think of is Billy Stevens and what they're doing in Dallas and Billy go and the reviews that they get. He's also he's open about it. I think he's like a 23 or 26 percent net profit in his business and he's still a great machine behind it and taking care of the customers. That's, I think that's the big thing, right? Is taking care of the people and I guess in, in referencing that and looking at that and I'll actually ask a question versus me just saying something and then leaving it open Which I do sometimes, but looking at, okay, I'm a company and I'm of the 90 percent grouping and I want to make sure that I can do right by Mr. Homeowner or Mrs. Homeowner, Mr. or Mrs. Jones, however you want to phrase it. What are some of the things that you've seen companies do incorrectly, unintentionally incorrectly, not intentionally incorrectly, unintentionally incorrectly that hinder or hurt the homeowner that they could easily fix overnight?

Joshua Griffin: 32:00

I think that any good homeowner is going to want you to still be in business 10 years from now. You've got a homeowner that's just going for the rock bottom price and you're trying to chase them, that's not who we chased at my company. We always, most of the systems we installed were high end systems and because of that, we had a higher end client base that said to answer your question, I think that. There are certain things you can do to add value. It's one thing to say, Hey we both can install an air conditioner and I'm just going to hire, have a higher price because I want to make more money than you do. I want to have a higher percentage or higher margin. Sure but you could also figure out a way to add value such as educating that homeowner on a few different options, upgrades perhaps offering a, an extended labor warranty offering some indoor air quality products, all educating them and offering them a higher end system. If you're not offering those systems, I've have guys comment on our videos all the time and they'll say, nobody in my area buys that stuff. Did you offer any of them? No, we don't even sell it at my company because nobody buys it. That's probably cause while they're that's it, that's why they're not buying it. You're not offering it. There are some homeowners out there and sometimes they'll surprise you. They're going to buy the best of what you, whatever you provide. They're going to buy it because they like you and they want the best and they've got the money. The first inverter system I've told the story before the very first inverter 20 seer system I ever sold was to a lady that was a hoarder and she smoked like a freight sharing and when my technician called me and he's she wants the platinum one unit. She wants the top one and I was like, you're kidding. There's no way she, that's what she wanted and she had the money and

Thaddeus Tondu: 33:49

It's funny. That's the reality. It's just showing it. I remember I used to sell Cutco knives that Evan did too. That's where we met of course it's not a podcast if we don't mention that we sold cocoa, but I just, I remember once I'd like the summer that I was in the sales role for the, like the most, but that's all that is exclusive sales. I actually sold the most they had pots and pans and not a lot of people knew that cocoa had pots and pans and I sold the most pots and pans of anybody in Canada and somebody asked me once how are you selling so many pots and pans? I'm like I talked about it. I show them a demo and I just put it on as we're doing it and I just say, great, here we go and then I just talk about it. You want to know more? And they say, yeah and then all of a sudden, Hey, look, now we're selling pots and pans. Like you just got to show it and talk about it cause when you do, you never know, you can't prejudge or prequalify at the end of the day, because you just never know.

Joshua Griffin: 34:32

Now I want some pots and pans, just because you talked about it.

Thaddeus Tondu: 34:35

I got a deal for you.

Evan Hoffman: 34:36

No,

Thaddeus Tondu: 34:36

but how

Evan Hoffman: 34:37

often do the managers to owners, contractors, et cetera, jump into, treating the symptom versus treating the cause oh, you've got a low average ticket. You're just not selling enough. You're not talking about it enough. You're not right. You're not doing enough of this instead of actually figuring out what is it that, that's there. That's the actual problem. Do they not believe in it? Do they not think that people will buy it? Are they just not presenting the options? Are they not presenting enough options, right? And that's, what we alluded to earlier that sales is the dirty word and sales is the thing that's ruining the industry and ruining customer experience. Selling isn't something that you do some for someone or to someone. It's something you do for someone and being able to present options and allow them to make a buying decision based off the education that you provide them as the expert in their home that's what real customer service is.

Joshua Griffin: 35:21

Absolutely. I concur.

Evan Hoffman: 35:23

And that's what you do on your channel, right? And when you look at the content that you've put out, Some of your most popular videos that you've put out. There's so much information on there. One of the hot button topics that I see you've put out a bunch of content about recently in the last little while is the free on and the different changes that are happening around that. What are your thoughts on some of the changes that we're seeing in terms of the regulations that they're trying to bring in? You're talking about stuff that's flammable versus not, the struggles that they're having and getting it approved yeah, we'll leave it open ended here for you. What are some of your thoughts around it?

Joshua Griffin: 35:55

Oh, I love this topic. It's the one thing I could definitely get on my soapbox on because I, there's a lot of guys in our industry that hate change and so I'm sometimes with them. I'm not in love with the new CR2 ratings that came out a couple of years ago. I'm not in love with them possibly, I can't speak for Canada, but down here in the States, there's this push in certain states to get rid of low efficiency furnaces, right? So I can't speak to all of that, but this one change right here, if there is a technician listening to your show, this one change, us bringing in A2L refrigerants, they just became more valuable over the next three decades than what they would have been without this change. I'm not talking to homeowners here. I'm now talking to the technician in a world where we're constantly told, we're not worth what we say we are. I can buy that online. I can buy DIY units in a world where we're constantly told we're not worth what we say we are, that we're not worth, we're not allowed to drive a nice car. One guy commented on my video because I have a sunroof in my car and one of my videos and he's this jerk's driving a nice car. You can't trust him. So in a world where we're constantly told we're not supposed to make what we're worth, maybe just, maybe you should be happy if you're a good technician that these things aren't quite so safe that you need to know what you're doing are they, should you be fearful of these new refrigerants? I think no, if they've been using them in other continents for decades, I think we're going to be okay as a first world country, right? But do we need to be serious about them? Should a homeowner be finally hiring a professional to work with these refrigerants? You just became more valuable. If Mrs. Jones is about to buy a house and she sees one of those crap DIY units on the side of that house, and she knows that there could possibly have flammable, mildly flammable refrigerants flowing through those lines, maybe just, maybe she's going to call you. Mr. Technician that knows what you're doing and you're doing everything properly. She's going to call you to make sure everything's right and should you be excited about that? I think, yes, I think that for the first time you should be excited about a change in our industry.

Thaddeus Tondu: 38:13

So how does one then from the business side to the consumer side in, in getting that messaging out there that it's not okay to DIY your shit? Because I think, YouTube is a good example of that, of the DIY videos that are out there. I fixed my dryer the couple months ago by looking at a YouTube video. Luckily I unplugged the dryer first, so I didn't electric myself. no, I did not get stuck in it although the other day, one of the kids closed the other kid inside the washing machine. We had a talk, we had to talk about that one saying yeah don't close the kid inside of it. But like, how do you get the message out there? How do we educate more? And obviously your channel is one of those ways to be able to do that, but how do you get that out there to the masses to say, Hey these things are coming down the line. You should not do this yourself.

Joshua Griffin: 38:56

I think at the end of the day, there is this line, right? So there is this line of you should, there are some things that homeowners can do and maybe even could do to save money and then there are things that they probably should not be doing. If they're not a certified licensed technician to be doing those things. The problem is, we probably all disagree where that line should be. There are some technicians that think homeowners shouldn't even be replacing their own air filters or putting drain tabs in their drain to make sure it flows and then there are other technicians that think that I'll just willy nilly give Homeowners all this information. There's YouTube videos of guys, no offense. Some of these guys actually like their stuff, but there's literally a video where a guy is showing homeowners how to stick a match up in their heat exchanger and I'm like, You're going to get someone killed doing this stuff. So I think at the end of the day, if you are a handy homeowner and you, cause I get homeowners all the time, they'll say, Oh, you're just, you're, you guys are leeches and you guys, what you do ain't that hard okay, fine there are homeowners that are pretty handy and 90 percent of what we do, as long as they've got a good grasp on electrical, they probably will be fine doing certain things, but there is definitely a line, we might not agree where that line is, but if you overstep that line and you don't know what you're doing, You are if nothing else, you're going to, you could burn your house down. You may not get hurt necessarily, but you could burn your house down. You could put your family at risk because you wanted to save a couple dollars. There is a line. We just might not agree where it is.

Thaddeus Tondu: 40:39

And again, it's subjective, right? I'll take myself as an example. I feel like I'm a pretty handy homeowner and I got a pretty good grasp on a lot of the things on that. I know in my furnace downstairs. I've changed my pressure switch once before because it went and granted the person I called to do it was away and he's dude, it's easy. It's two screws and a clip. I'll tell, I'll go order the part for you. Just go pick it up. It's COD. I'm like, okay, cool did it. I guess when my blower motor went earlier this year, yeah, I wasn't going to replace that myself. We're going to bring somebody into the idea yeah, okay. In essence, it's fairly simplistic. There's a lot of different moving ways to do that, but no, you can just do that cause if I fucked that up, it was also winter and I didn't really want to have no heat for that long.

Evan Hoffman: 41:16

Well, and that's just it. Like the gas valve went on my furnace at one point, right? Like you gotta, you're dealing with natural gas, you're dealing with CO2, you're like carbon monoxide, all of that shit. Last thing you need is a carbon monoxide leak in your house. Yeah, there's certain things you just don't touch the refrigerant. You'd burn yourself and I've seen the pictures of the guys with blisters all over their hands, even with the refrigerant that the, that it is now, right now you're talking about something that's more flammable, that's going to be coming in and I just, I would much rather hire a professional and let them go deal with it.

Thaddeus Tondu: 41:46

Peace of mind. It's also like roofing or would you, can you replace your own roof? Yeah, sure. What's your time worth to you? That's the other part. How much time are you going to invest and you're going to suck into it? And so some people think that I'm going to do this myself and I'm going to save a few dollars. No, you just spent extra time away from whatever else that brings you pleasure and maybe this brings you pleasure. Sure. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe you're just doing it to save some money when in that sense it doesn't actually save you money in the long run. Yep. It's the accountant versus the economist time. I always look at that as as two different things. The accountant looks at time specifically from a dollar in dollar out perspective while the economist looks at it as what is your value and your time worth to be able to do it and there's two different looks at that.

Evan Hoffman: 42:26

Correct. Here's an interesting topic. So Ryan on YouTube here said it's tens of thousands of dollars. Sometimes price gouging is real in the HVAC industry, seen it firsthand and definitely, by the way, Ryan, it absolutely does happen at times. That's why it's important to find a good contract for the prices that work appropriately but even with that, there still is a balance, right? Because you could hire the cheapest guy in town and I'm, Cutco, good stuff isn't cheap and cheap stuff isn't good. So there is still a value there of paying a premium price. To get a premium service where now there's no callbacks, right? They're not screwing it up. They're doing a thorough inspection. They're looking to see how they're going to be other problems that could arise and it's not just this one fix that's going to solve the problem, but is there other things that are going to create more problems down the road?

Joshua Griffin: 43:10

Absolutely.

Evan Hoffman: 43:11

You're the HVAC tech.

Joshua Griffin: 43:12

Yeah, I, again, I'll just say it again there, I think we can all agree where, and I think you're right. It's not objective. It's subjective. That line is different from for every homeowner. That line might even move because there are certain guys in our trade that are more expensive or maybe they're not quite as good at what we do, right? So that line might move a little further towards the homeowner doing certain things. I think you could argue different situations. That line is definitely there and I think at the end of the day, if you're a more handier homeowner, you could probably do some things like replace a pressure switch, but then there are other things where maybe just maybe I agree. It's not a couple dollars. It's also not tens of thousands of dollars. We're talking some repairs can be a thousand or 2, 000, but maybe just, maybe you might want to still pay for it because you might end up paying for more in the end if you don't get it done correctly.

Thaddeus Tondu: 44:05

And I think where we're potentially that's going tens of thousands sometimes is the, and the gouging aspect of things is the upsells and the add ons and the plus, plus, pluses that somebody comes in to look at it's building the option tree error, the wish list or whatever you want to call it, depending on who your sales trainer has been writing down everything that they say and so if you look at that and you're saying, okay I've got a quote here for 26, 000 to replace my AC unit. The fuck? Hey, how about let's put Let's walk that back a little bit and let's say did you go get a second and a third opinion and how in line are those prices right? You're like, I've always been told go get three quotes when I was managing condos go get if you don't like the first one and you don't trust the person do well, then go get two more quotes to be able to validate The pricing now if you get three quotes and they're all completely out to lunch. Then go get three more and see where the price falls, because now you're going to see some form of certainty. Some, for the most part, pricing should be ballpark ish, the same, give or take, depending on the company. you got one person in a van yeah, guess what? Their pricing is going to be lower, because they don't have the overhead. You've got a big company, 10, 20 million dollars. They've got overhead so the pricing does have to be a little bit higher, but now you should have a better customer experience because it's not just one person and so there's that blend too, of understanding the type of a person that you're purchasing from too, right? Now we're like, we're talking on the homeowner side. Who are you buying it from? What is the company? How does that company make you feel? Do they have a very nice truck wrap? Do they have all the other guys and gals come into their home nicely, clean dressed company uniforms, all those things, and putting booties on, putting a mat in front of your door when they walk in, are they cleaning up? If they're doing a, an install, are they buying the rolls of cardboard to be able to roll down? If they are coming in and out of the house with their boots on, are they doing all those small things? Because when they do all those small things, yeah, you're paying for the premium service and can't remember if it was Brigham that talked about it last time. It's, you look at the car manufacturers picked up on this in the very beginning. GMC and Cadillac, guess what? Same company different logo, different experience. Toyota and Lexus. Guess what? Same company. Different logo, different experience and so understanding that too, of the price point of what you're actually purchasing as a homeowner. Are you wanting the high end experience? It's going to cost you more.

Evan Hoffman: 46:15

I concur. I went on a rant there one of the books that I love and we'll touch on this really quick and then we'll wrap things up here but one of the books I love is they ask you answer which the whole premise of the book is how do you build content? That's going to truly answer the real questions that your customers have on a daily basis and I think that your channel really does hit on this and it did when you were running a business and it still does today of being able to meet customers where they're at and be able to educate them and arm them with the information that they need to make a great buying decision. What is it that you feel like companies can do better to try and follow in your footsteps when maybe they can't break through that YouTube algorithm the way that you have now? But maybe they could in another way to be able to meet customers where they're at.

Joshua Griffin: 46:59

Yeah. On our website, one of the things we do is we have masterminds. So I've got a group, I've actually got two groups, but one in particular where we have said, Hey, they've almost taken the bull by the horns and they are each making their own videos for their company and the thought processes and then you want to talk about secrets revealed. If there's a pro out there that hears this, I think it could change their business there are areas of our country of our continent, really, that there are literally no videos for that area. So if you take let's just say a city where there are if you go to Google and you say, okay HVAC contractors in Chicago, Illinois, you're going to get a plethora of companies that pop up on Google maps or on Google business. In hindsight, if you search Chicago, Illinois HVAC, and I haven't even done this I could be completely wrong, but most cities, there is nothing on YouTube, and so I think that if you are a good company, you could, You could hyper target a certain market to where if they search their city and they're looking for different keywords, furnace HVAC, whatever and they see, your face pop up every time they're searching any of that. There is a huge opportunity there for and this isn't something I created. There are real estate professionals that have done a really good job at this and changed their, the trajectory of their businesses, because if you search real estate in that city, you see that real estate agent pop up constantly and I think that's not done enough. So I don't know if that really answered your question, but I think that's a huge opportunity. I think a lot of pros could not just, have more money coming through the door, but ultimately they're also going to be seen as a professional. It's going to add credibility, right? If somebody in your city just keeps seeing you pop up every time they search anything revolving around their city and that problem, guess who they're calling? They're calling the guy that or gal that is in their feet.

Thaddeus Tondu: 49:08

And here's the other part that, that it does in terms of the marketing side of things from the marketing agency is that if you have those videos and you're working with a marketing agency, now you can take those, you can embed those onto the website and create blog posts out of it and you can also throw those up on the old TikToks too and do the exact same thing and now you're leveraging something that you created for one platform, YouTube search engine, by the way, for another platform, TikTok search engine, by the way. Oh, Hey, and you're putting on your website to be able to please the Google gods. Hey, search engine, by the way now you're taking that one piece of thing, one piece of content and doubling down on that. tripling, quadrupling down because you're putting in multiple different places that's the other part on the business side, not just the tech. If you're the business owner looking at that's how you can leverage some of those things. Evan, you were going to say a thought.

Evan Hoffman: 49:50

Yeah, it was doubling down on the same aspect of being able to connect with people where they're at. So start the video, wear a Bears jersey, right? If you're in Chicago, for example, and then you start off and be like, my God, was that game frustrating anyways? Hey it's Josh with Griffin air. I'm up in Evanston right now and we were just out of home and this is what we noticed and here was the issue. you're in Evanston too, and you have the same kind of issue, chances are, here's what problem is. Try this quick fix. If that doesn't do it, call us. Because it's something that's more complicated. Now you've created real content, you've helped people, connected with them on that local level, and you've created a call to action at the end of it, in case that quick fix didn't work. That was simple to do as a homeowner. It's something that I've seen some different business owners do in other industries and I think it's something that works tremendously well with connecting with people.

Joshua Griffin: 50:40

There you go. I'm already seeing people do it. We have got one guy in particular in our mastermind that he has a very young business, and he's already all over. If you search his city, he's there. So on the number two most searched website in the world, not Google being number one, YouTube being number two, he is there. If you search for any word that has anything to do with HVAC in his city, there he is.

Evan Hoffman: 51:06

And on the Google leaks that happened, what was it? A week and a half ago, two weeks ago now the number one thing that it talked about when it comes to local search is video making sure that you've got video on your website, making sure that you got the proper schema to make sure so that people know that this is a video site and there's video on the site incredibly important for a local search.

Thaddeus Tondu: 51:25

I'm sure that we can keep going but we do want to be respectful of the time. So we'll wrap her up here. So if you want to check out more information on where to find Josh new hvacguide.com is one way the YouTube channel, youtube. com forward slash at new HVAC guide and he's also coming up with a new one, youtube.com/@NewHVACGuide live show, which is super important there for those that are watching on his channel, though. Hey, guess what? Heading over to ours, youtube.com/@hvacrevealed, hit the subscribe button. So we'll do a little bit of subscribing back and forth for our viewers, but So as we do wrap up, we've got one last question here for you though. What is one question that you wish people would ask you more, but don't.

Joshua Griffin: 52:05

Oh, man. Great question if it's okay, I'm going to spend that and I wish they would stop asking me what the best HVAC brand is. Stop caring so much about what the brand is and care more about finding a good contractor and I know you guys are more about, your audiences, the contractors themselves, be that good contractor, so stop worrying about the brand so much. I'm not one of those guys that says, Oh, they're all the same with just different paint. I do have preferences, but at the end of the day, I think that finding a good company that will stand behind what they're installing is way more important than the brand that you're, that you read on some website or saw some fat face like mine, some guys say, Oh, this brand's the best, ignore that crap, find a great contractor and then, nurture that relationship.

Thaddeus Tondu: 52:53

Yeah and it's funny that you say that because you asked 10 different technicians what their favorite brand is, and you'll get 10 different answers. That's the reality I not from the same company, ask 10 different techs from 10 different companies, and you're going to get different answers because it's just subjective to the individual.

Evan Hoffman: 53:07

Yeah. I would rather have the worst brand installed correctly than the best brand installed incorrectly.

Thaddeus Tondu: 53:12

I will last 10 times longer. It's funny cause I just replaced a rental and has two furnaces and one furnace went down and it was the only company that could come like that day. It was winter time. They replaced it and the other guys that replaced a little bit later, I haven't even heard of the brain that he installed. He said, do you care where the brand is? I'm now, as long as it runs, he's great. So I looked at the name when I was there last night. I don't, I couldn't even tell you the name of what it is. I've never heard of this before in my life and it's not a private label. It's just some random brand. I've never heard of, but hey,

Evan Hoffman: 53:37

here's a question for you then. What are we'll say three. What are the top three questions that a homeowner should ask to determine whether or not they're dealing with the right company?

Joshua Griffin: 53:45

Why do you sell what you sell? I am not, again, I'm not one of those guys that thinks, of course, I just said brand doesn't matter as much as the contractor, but I definitely think that you should ask who you're about to hire, who I'm want to hire a contractor that drinks the Kool Aid for whatever it is they're installing. Why do you sell what you sell? And you should be able to, I think a good contractor should be able to answer that. If their answer is it's what my dad always sold and no, I want to know that you love and you just breathe what you're installing. So that would probably be the first one. The second one is I would ask them what they have in their own house. So if I think that if contractor really does believe what he's selling, he should be installing it in his own house and then the last question would be, I would probably ask, I don't know. I think a lot of homeowners don't think about the warranty as much. I'd probably ask what their warranty is. I don't even know if you asked what the homeowner should be asking maybe you meant for contractors.

Evan Hoffman: 54:42

Nope, I meant for the homeowners that's who you communicate to, right? A lot of the times and if contractors know what it is that homeowners are looking for, and they fully understand that and on the flip side, if the marketing company knows what the homeowners are looking for, they'll be able to provide those answers and they'll be able to live those values in their business.

Joshua Griffin: 55:00

I've got one more and because your audience is the contractor on my website, new HVAC guide, homeowners can hire me to help them figure it out, to help them go through proposals and figure out what the verbiage means, right? The biggest thing that irks me when I see these proposals sent in from contractors is not enough of them are doing properly structured contracts. Have a contract that spells everything out so there's no surprises. I can't tell you how many homeowners that I've helped that I'm like, ask them for a contract. What happens if this happens? What happens if that happens? It's not there. There's not, there's no contract for you to sign and things be spelled out. It should be in writing. We don't live in a world where it's on a handshake anymore because there are some bad apples out there. Put it in writing, have a proper contract and take good care of that customer. it irks me and I'm telling you, I would say the majority of the contracts or proposals that I see sent out, there's no contract. There's no good contract attached.

Evan Hoffman: 56:04

So the proposal I got on the back of the napkin was not not good enough.

Joshua Griffin: 56:08

At least it's a contract. That would be a start. If it's something that's on.

Evan Hoffman: 56:12

No, that's a great point and being able to understand that from the contractor's perspective of what is it that people want, reverse engineer that even starting with what is it that I would want as a homeowner? What is it that I would want my spouse to be? As a homeowner reverse engineer that and build your business around that experience. I always loved the adage of, sell as if it was your mother. What would you, how would you position an offer to your mother when it comes to her HVAC system, her plumbing system, her electrical system make doing it from that perspective, you're always going to take care of people the right way unless you were adopted. Then maybe not, but

Thaddeus Tondu: 56:48

or he didn't like your mom or he's a caveat. Joshua are.Igured I'd throw that one in there. Thank you for taking the time to come on our show and also to connect to go to your audience and to your show. I think we had some great fascinating conversations for both audiences in looking forward to the things that are going to come from your new brand and going to do in the lives on the YouTube and continue to grow that. Thank you for taking the time to come on with us. Yeah, no worries. And until next time, cheers.

Evan Hoffman: 57:12

Cheers.

Thaddeus Tondu: 57:15

Well, That's a wrap on another episode of HVAC Success Secrets Revealed. Before you go, two quick things. First off, join our Facebook group, facebook.com/groups/hvacrevealed. The other thing, if you took one tiny bit of information out of this show, no matter how big, no matter how small, all we ask is for you to introduce this to one person in your contacts list. That's it. That's all. One person. So they too can unleash the ultimate HVAC business. Until next time. Cheers.